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fokker
31-05-2010, 01:21 PM
From hanging around on another photography forum which is predominantly frequented by Americans, I have seen a lot of discussions about the legalities of photography - can you photograph people in public without their permission, photographing at sports games and events, confiscation of equipment etc. Without getting into too much detail, from what I gather is that you can photograph anything you want on public property without anybody's permission. On private property it is up to the management whether it is allowed, but in the worst case they can only ask you to leave, and forcibly eject you if you refuse. Under no circumstances can security or the police confiscate your camera or memory cards. Now this is America, but I'm curious to know about this sort of thing in New Zealand.

The reason I ask is I went to a concert on the weekend (Katchafire at a pub in Tokoroa). since I was sober driving I thought I'd just bring my camera along and keep myself entertained by taking pictures of the band playing, which I did for a while and was until one security guard told me that I had to put the camera away and stop taking photos or he would confiscate it. Now, I don't usually like to argue with security guards as they are usually big and black, and I'm a skinny white guy :(. But on this particular occasion I was a bit annoyed at being asked to stop, since I paid my money for a ticket with the intention of going to take some pictures (for myself only I might add, not for sale or a newspaper or anything). Nowhere on the ticket (not that I saw anyway and they kept the stub so I can't check) did it state 'no photography', and in fact there were about 6 little slappers in the front row with their p&s cameras flashing away, taking awful photos (I was peeping over their shoulders at the screens).

I asked the security guard why I was being singled out, even though it was clearly because of the camera I was using (just a 40d with 50mm lens, no grip or speedlight - imagine if it was a 1d with a 70-200 f2.8 and a speedlight!). His response was to tell me that I was not allowed to sell the photos. I argues the point that they were for my own use only, I even showed him the otehr shots on the memory card of typical 'hobby' photos such as flowers and some mates mountain biking, but he wasn't convinced. He went and asked the band manager, who said the same thing and when I asked him what the difference is between my camera and the little cameras the slappers were using his repsonse was that my camera 'has more memory in it' :eek: I was wtf, but they were obviously beyond arguing so I put the camera in the car.

It didn't really bother me at that point as I had all the photos I was going to take anyway, but it was a matter of principle. Also, the security guard said he did security for a lot of concerts and this was always the case - yet I've never heard of it being an issue before. I do plan on taking my camera to future concerts and would hate to be turned away at the door or have my gear confiscated by a power tripping bouncer.

So really what I'm wondering is what are the laws surrounding photography at events like this, and in general in New Zealand. I'm sure you guys have stories of your own and I'm keen to hear, please share them!

Howzat
31-05-2010, 02:03 PM
I can sort of understand, as some people would be shocked if they saw photos of themselves sozzled the day after praps?

fokker
31-05-2010, 04:10 PM
Yeah but there's no laws against filming or photographing drunk people on the street - think police 10-7!

whittyp
31-05-2010, 04:21 PM
Yeah but there's no laws against filming or photographing drunk people on the street - think police 10-7!

That would be because they are in a public place.

The law as I understand it is that you can take photos in any public place that is truely a public place (ie there is no restriction on you being there) like a street, park etc without being challenged. There are privacy laws however that would stop you if you were sitting in the street with a 600mm lense shooting into peoples houses.

When you move inside then it is no longer a public place and the organisers can set their own rules about photography. Generally they will not bother with the P&S because as you rightly said they are unlikely to get a decent image.

The best thing to do in these cases is approach the organiser before hand. In a lot of cases not only will you get permission but security may help you get into a better shooting posse.

Redal
31-05-2010, 07:16 PM
Seeing it was in a bar, the bar owners/managers and band management set the rules.
Even if there is nothing on the ticket about camera's , they can find an excuse to remove you from the premises.
They can't take your camera off you, but can kick you out.

As whittyp said, contact both managements first, then you know if you can bring your camera before hand. The bar owner might say yes and the band might so no.
This is easier with no name bands, once you go to bigger name bands the harder it is.

talan
31-05-2010, 07:58 PM
Yeah im pretty sure 'private' events and places they can take confiscate your camera or ask you to leave. I've been to concerts at Vector arena where my mate had to put his 5D II in coat check but that was pretty eatass as we saw others with SLR slung across their neck and obviously P+S cameras and people taking video with phones and P+S cameras. The policing is so inconsistent.

unspeakableoutrage
04-06-2010, 06:30 PM
From hanging around on another photography forum which is predominantly frequented by Americans, I have seen a lot of discussions about the legalities of photography - can you photograph people in public without their permission, photographing at sports games and events, confiscation of equipment etc. Without getting into too much detail, from what I gather is that you can photograph anything you want on public property without anybody's permission. On private property it is up to the management whether it is allowed, but in the worst case they can only ask you to leave, and forcibly eject you if you refuse. Under no circumstances can security or the police confiscate your camera or memory cards. Now this is America, but I'm curious to know about this sort of thing in New Zealand.

The reason I ask is I went to a concert on the weekend (Katchafire at a pub in Tokoroa). since I was sober driving I thought I'd just bring my camera along and keep myself entertained by taking pictures of the band playing, which I did for a while and was until one security guard told me that I had to put the camera away and stop taking photos or he would confiscate it. Now, I don't usually like to argue with security guards as they are usually big and black, and I'm a skinny white guy :(. But on this particular occasion I was a bit annoyed at being asked to stop, since I paid my money for a ticket with the intention of going to take some pictures (for myself only I might add, not for sale or a newspaper or anything). Nowhere on the ticket (not that I saw anyway and they kept the stub so I can't check) did it state 'no photography', and in fact there were about 6 little slappers in the front row with their p&s cameras flashing away, taking awful photos (I was peeping over their shoulders at the screens).

I asked the security guard why I was being singled out, even though it was clearly because of the camera I was using (just a 40d with 50mm lens, no grip or speedlight - imagine if it was a 1d with a 70-200 f2.8 and a speedlight!). His response was to tell me that I was not allowed to sell the photos. I argues the point that they were for my own use only, I even showed him the otehr shots on the memory card of typical 'hobby' photos such as flowers and some mates mountain biking, but he wasn't convinced. He went and asked the band manager, who said the same thing and when I asked him what the difference is between my camera and the little cameras the slappers were using his repsonse was that my camera 'has more memory in it' :eek: I was wtf, but they were obviously beyond arguing so I put the camera in the car.

It didn't really bother me at that point as I had all the photos I was going to take anyway, but it was a matter of principle. Also, the security guard said he did security for a lot of concerts and this was always the case - yet I've never heard of it being an issue before. I do plan on taking my camera to future concerts and would hate to be turned away at the door or have my gear confiscated by a power tripping bouncer.

So really what I'm wondering is what are the laws surrounding photography at events like this, and in general in New Zealand. I'm sure you guys have stories of your own and I'm keen to hear, please share them!

Hi there

have taken (and am still taking) a lot of pics at concerts, both small and large and never had an issue expect at Tina Turner many years ago in Auckland. The only issue there appeared to be having a lot of equipment in my bag. Any other time just taking in camera and lens has never been an issue. Don't look professional, or behave like one and you'll be fine. Had no issue even with 50D battery grip and 70-200 lens (last two regretfully only borrowed) at ACDC recently.

I am however a not very small white boy...

Cheers
Francis